unique forms

[timtank]

I would like to know if the creation of a lightsaber form is permitted... Like I want to create a lightsaber form unique to a character, so what should I do? If it is permitted what would the negatives of this be.

[Rugs]

I would like to know if the creation of a lightsaber form is permitted

'Tis not

[Aklis]

What Rugs said.

Creating a lightsaber form would be an incredibly arduous process. The forms have been around for a very long time, even in the Old Republic-days, though Juyo never really caught on with the Jedi for obvious reasons.

Then there's the case of Vaapad, of course, but it isn't as much as a separate form as it is Windu applying a specific mindset to lightsaber combat. The moves were already there, it's simply the thinking that's different.

[timtank]

Okay, how about a variation or Combat style unique to it's wilder?

[Jenno]

I've seen this countless times over my years here. Basically, you'd have to detail the aspects/functionality of the form/style and I know people like Sparrow and myself would highly scrutinise it.

Why? Because it's highly doubtful you'd be able to invent some new/unique form/style and have it be completely different from any of the forms that already exist.

You can't just say he has a unique form and fights in a unique way. How is it unique, what makes it new and different from everything out there? Because honestly, with the 7 styles and the lightsaber hilt variations, pretty much every practical aspect of lightsaber combat is covered.

[timtank]

okay then, how about a combination of two forms? trying to use aspects of two styles in his fighting style.

[Jenno]

Then you learn both forms and switch when it's applicable.

[mephz]

Aren't the lightsaber forms based on western swordsmanship? Didn't they get some famous western swordsmanship teacher (I don't really remember his name) to create the styles. That kind of leaves the rest of the world and all other swordsmanship styles that have ever existed. So I really doubt most of the practical aspects have been covered. Give me Mongolian or other Asian swordsmanship over that crap anyday.

Unless of course I'm mistaken and that teacher used all of the world's sword styles but somehow I doubt he could get them all into mere 7 forms.

edit: after checking around a bit. I now know a few moves were borrowed from the japanese, but meh that's really were the similarities end. The samurai had completely different foot movement and fighting style than the Jedi forms. I think the closest forms would probably be Shien / Djem So: for when the samurai were in full armor or maybe maskashi when lightly armored or when they had no armor at all (oh! and possibly that style were they start with the sword behind their back, not sure which one that is). Though they are really just using one type for the Jedi style when there were many different samurai styles/schools with all sorts of different things in their styles through the ages.

That leaves all the chinese styles, mongolian styles (like a mentioned) and do they have a style similar to the french musketeers?

Anyway think I'll stop I just found this interesting, but the topic is pretty much dealt with. :Þ

[Jenno]

Well, a couple of things, these different world forms also all use different swords, and those different swords have different weights/attributes.

A lightsaber is not like that due to the fact the blade is weightless, which therein limits a variation in style based upon weight.

And besides, I'm sure that the thousands of people using a form aren't going to move precisely the same, because everyone adds their own little personal style to their movements. But what the 7 forms do is deal with different focal points of general combat. And if you say this new style does one thing or another, it's probably going to be pretty much what one of the forms already does.

So that isn't a new lightsaber form, that's just labelling something as unique just to boat that the character's got something unique, when really they haven't.

EDIT: Also, for Makashi, I believe you're thinking of fencing.

[mephz]

Well for Makashi I was mostly thinking about the one strike = one kill. It fits the samurai as their fighting style was heavily based on ending the fight quickly, preferably with one strike. In some way to Save their energy, though mostly to keep the katana sharp and intact. It was after all a fragile blade and it could only handle a few kills before going blunt or becoming cracked or even broken. Especially since striking a bone with it almost always either cracked it or damaged it in some way. A dragged out sword fight could mean death if the blade was not in good shape when the next challenger came. It simply could not handle the exchange so killing with few slashes or thrusts was the goal.

Though if the Makashi style also has that: hold your blade over your shoulders starting stance, then that is also a very common Japanese stance, although as you said that stance is also common in fencing. The Japanese also had the quick draw stance/style which kind of overshadowed the rest, but the other one was also fairly common.

For weight, well it would matter for the more heavier weapons. Like the great-sword, broadsword and other thicker shaped weapons, like maybe the falchion though that one is small compared to the others. There is simply no lightsaber shaped like that or as heavy as that.

But most of the Eastern/Asian styles are made with thin light blades (especially the Chinese, Ottoman Empire and some Mongolian styles) so when kotor added the small lightsabers and Dooku showed us his curved hilt, then most if not all eastern styles became easy to import into star wars if one wanted to do that.

I personally think the seven styles are enough though for the purpose of this roleplay. I just stumbled into the discussion and thought it was interesting, but I do stand by my earlier point that I doubt those seven styles can grasp every single swordsmanship style that could possibly be used with lightsabers. There are always similarities, for example there are probably hundred types of samurai styles with that and that different but many similarities. However they would conflict if you tried to group them into the same form. Those small differences make them unique and there were hundred of schools with their own "secret" style. :Þ

[Aklis]

First off. The katana is a very useless weapon fit only for killing unarmed peasants. It was very rarely used in battle and only as a backup weapon. The katana was for the Samurai what a handgun is to a modern army: Sure, it can save your life in a pinch, but it's really not meant for warfare.

More on the katana here

As for combining forms: Many characters did it. Obi-Wan, for example, took the acrobatics from Ataru and used them in conjunction with his Soresu. Doesn't mean you will have a separate form. My guess is that Obi-Wan would have maybe a 3 in Ataru and a 5 in Soresu at the end of RotS.

Makashi is very much fencing. There really isn't anything Samurai about it, in my mind - one hand, precise movement, thrusts; you can't do any of these with a katana. Honestly, Shii-Cho is probably the only form that comes close to Samurai fighting, simply because it really just consists of holding your saber in two hands and whacking people with it.

[Zarkan]

The same can be said for any sword aklis their expensive to manufacture, nigh useless against cavalry, difficult to master, and have limited range. Spears and other pole arms were always the primary armament of any ancient army.

The movies are rather inconsistant with what they show with the newer episodes using a fighting style clearly apeing the now popular high wire sword fu...stuff while the older ones seem to be based more off of hand and a half sword techniques.

[mephz]

Aklis: I really don't put any weight in that 6 minute video of that dude you posted. He really knows nothing about swords according to this. He's just spouting out wikipedia stuff and some of it is plain wrong, especially how the swords were made and how they can be used. It's completely wrong that it was only useful against unharmed peasants. It was excellent both for duelling and as a secondary weapon in battles (spear was always the first choice).

All weapons are meant for warfare and the katana was even especially made for duelling. The eastern just had another view on battles than we in the west did. It was much more of a spiritual thing, the beauty of the blade and the fighting form meant a lot to them, while we in the west did not give a crap and just cleaved the enemy with whatever was around, or simply kicked them in the groin.

[BlackAdder]

Hey, if cleaving and groin kicking works...

[timtank]

Okay I would like to ask about something else. What about using a Jedi Katana? I see nothing in the rules against it, so if a jedi had a good reason to own one could they?

[Zarkan]

there wouldn't be any point in specifying a type of blade. Bladed weaponry is defined by their balance and the type of damage they were designed to inflict both of which are mute do the the light saber's weightless plasma blades which are equally capable of cutting or piercing attacks.