Lightsaber styles & mastery

[Thaddeus]

First suggestion woot!

During a discussion in the chat regarding lightsaber forms I was struck by the use of the word "mastered" and particularly its relation to the first form Shii-Cho. Now no character can have a higher number in any form than the number they have in Shii-Cho, which makes perfect sense. However having a 5 in another form is usually taken to mean that a character is among the masters of that particular form, they can be said to have mastered it.

However I don't think anyone would say that every single Jedi or Sith or insert-Force group here would be a master of Shii-Cho. So what I'd like to suggest is a way to quickly represent that a character has focused on mastering Form I; while the bio will obviously explain all this, we do not always have time to read closely the bio of every character we are in a thread with, and in combat threads may want to just quickly glance at stats to get the general gist. Simply including '+' sign next to the 5 in Shii-Cho if the character has devoted themselves to mastering the form beyond being adept at its basic motions. And obviously this sign cannot be included where the number in Shii-Cho is lower than 5.

This would give Shii-Cho the place it deserves as a fully formed combat style, which several masters in the canon employed, and it offers and encourages greater choice in lightsaber styles. Perhaps people will think instead of always hitting up Makashi or Soresu that hey maybe my character masters the first form. Which according to wookieepedia, "In the hands of a master, the bladework was described as "like watching water flow over the falls.""

Sorry to bother the idea came to me when the word mastered was used to say that a character had got a 5 in Shii-Cho, which to me is not what is implied in mastering - otherwise every single Jedi/Sith/Insert Name Here is a master in a form by the time they finish their padawan/apprentice years, which just doesn't strike me as correct.

Anyways shutting up now.

Thad

[Rugs]

Funny you should mention that

This is actually a topic we (the staff) have had pretty extensively several times, as a concept for lightsaber mastery across the board, not just Shii-Cho.

There are a few things that come into consideration with the topic, and specifically with just applying it to Shii-Cho overall. First and foremost, at least for Shii-Cho, is that no one really specializes in it, as far as I'm aware off the top of my head. It's known by all, but typically falls to the wayside in favor of other, more specialized forms. That's not to say it's not used - it's Nieraan's form of choice with a single blade, for example - but it's just not common as a specialization. 

I'd personally love to see a character who specializes in it, as Kit Fisto did.

Another issue, though not insurmountable is that going to a system where a character shows specilization in a form would require some backlogging to bring older characters up to speed, which would require members putting in requests and staff evaluation and so on. Not impossible, obviously, but not a simple thing to implement.

Though perhaps the biggest thing, and I say that as someone who generally doesn't have an issue with the specialization indication, is that SWU is, as we often say, about writing, more than anything else. Stats obviously play an important role in determining a character's ability in something, and as such, we take them seriously.

However, though it's nice to have some sort of way to identify that a character has specialized in a particular form, that doesn't necessarily equate to an automatic victory in a battle. Because when it comes down to it, if a character is supposed to be specialized in a particular something or other, it should show through the player's writing. If it doesn't then an asterisk or plus sign by the number isn't going to do much good, just like some older characters from the wild west days of SWU with high intel scores aren't going to be treated as geniuses if they're played like silly people.


Anyway, like the suggestion, and like I said, it's one that has come up and probably will again xD

[Thaddeus]

Aug 1, 2014 11:36:39 GMT -5 Rugs said:

Though perhaps the biggest thing, and I say that as someone who generally doesn't have an issue with the specialization indication, is that SWU is, as we often say, about writing, more than anything else. Stats obviously play an important role in determining a character's ability in something, and as such, we take them seriously.

However, though it's nice to have some sort of way to identify that a character has specialized in a particular form, that doesn't necessarily equate to an automatic victory in a battle. Because when it comes down to it, if a character is supposed to be specialized in a particular something or other, it should show through the player's writing. If it doesn't then an asterisk or plus sign by the number isn't going to do much good, just like some older characters from the wild west days of SWU with high intel scores aren't going to be treated as geniuses if they're played like silly people.

As I said in my suggestion obviously there would need to be extensive support within the biography itself for the "+" sign to be given. Not unlike how such support within the biography is needed for specialised Force abilities and talents. Because as you say if you can't write with an appropriate sense and style of what you are trying to claim your character has then it is just becomes unbelievable; exactly as in your example if someone says their character is a genius but their own writing is not up to snuff then that talent seems moot.

And again as I pointed out, as is a given for all stats, they serve only as an indication of the general aptitude of a character in a particular aspect. I like to think of it as how the character would perform on their best day, and obviously not every day is someone's best so sometimes a person with 5 will beat an 8. They are just an easy way to reference a character's talents without having to trawl through the whole bio every time. And given that there is presently no indication within stats of specialisation they are actually failing to fully perform their function.

Also if this issue has been continually raised then that would suggest, to me at least, that there is something lacking in the present methodology.

Again to reiterate I don't believe that stats are everything, I believe they are a quick reference; and in order to better facilitate this I see no reason why they cannot demonstrate that a particular character has specialised within a particular lightsaber style. Does this mean that I believe someone with the higher stat and who has a specialisation will always win? No of course not, stats are to hammer home again just a guide. But guides need to adequately reflect the more detailed whole, and at present I feel the stats for lightsaber styles are failing to properly realise this.

Thad

[Rugs]

Not everything I said was directed at you, of course. I know you and I aren't the only people reading this thread, so I'm just pointing out a few of the concerns on the other side. I myself am not particularly against the idea, though as with a lot of things, the implementation is much more difficult than just talking about it in theory.

Still, there's certainly something to be said for that. But still, you have to look at everything that would have to go into such a change for the system versus the benefits it would bring about once those changes are implemented.

I can say that such a change would come with some limits, because, obviously, it shouldn't be something easy to attain. Some past ideas that have been bandied about include keeping it limited to characters who only know three forms or less to show they've focused their studies (I.E.- Shii-Cho and two others), are master-level characters and probably at least in their mid-to-late thirties, if not 40s. That reduces the potential pool to a pretty small number of characters. Add in the requirements for extensive bio support to show that yes, these characters actually dedicated significant portions of their lives to learning this and not 'of they're more a force user and haven't spread themselves out so much' and the pool shrinks again, pretty significantly.

Meanwhile, those players whose characters specialize in some form (there aren't many of them) will continue to write their characters as they always have, with the star or asterisk without it. And meanwhile, we add another wrinkle to SWU's already quirky/complex stat system.

Sooo again, I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I'm not saying I'm against the idea. But even as someone who's brought the idea up myself in the past, if there's going to be a change to the system, I believe that there needs to be at least a significant benefit to support it the updating and whatever disruption it introduces, small or large. For something as narrowly-focused as this, I'm not certain there would be, but I'll certainly open the floor up to any further member discussion or weighing in. We're always listening, after all, whether it seems like it or not