Post by tepigturtwig on Aug 20, 2016 16:51:00 GMT -5
After being ridiculously fascinated by Lemur's guide to Cliches, I decided to look at a few I found on the practice duels forum, and I'm just putting this on the table. Feel free to add any you found in replies to this post!
Padawan = Sith Grandmaster
I know this isn't as possible to avoid as other cliches on this list, but that doesn't make it feel any better. When you are engaging in a duel when one person is clearly stronger than the other, it just feels almost unnatural to see the weaker one fight on even ground with the far stronger one, and really lowers the over all realism of the story.
Ways to Subvert It? If your character has any common sense, they would go on the defensive. Keep walking backwards, only using defensive moves. Heck, chuck things at them, or just plain run, screaming like a girl. One of the strongest ways to still earn the same wow factor as your enemy, if not more, is to keep the duel at a distance, and focus mostly on your character's mentality, as they try and work around this far deadlier foe.
Ways to Own It? The most realistic way is to underestimate or not understand who your enemy is, causing you to go in on them. Maybe, if you play to your strengths and they to their weaknesses, it can look even. Or, if your character is very headstrong or overconfident, maybe they can go in, and not realize that they are getting caught in something deadly.
Overall, this isn't anywhere near the worst cliche on the list, and can definitely slide.
Wait, it's the last round? All or nothing then.
I can't really explain why this pieves me so much, but it really does. Most of the time, a good duel ends without one of these, but some of the good duels have All or nothings and pull them off well, but properly pacing the duel and making it seem logical that the characters are running out of time, and need to pull one off. But most of the time when I see this, its just a way to make the last round seem way more climactic then would have logically made sense. It usually makes no sense for the duel, and just brings down the duel, especially if it is getting down and gritty by the end.
Ways to Subvert It? Simple. Don't make it a last stand. In a lot of duels, even in the movies, the characters rarely realize that they are about to die or lose a duel, and this is their last stand. Just have the duel be at an incredibly tense moment, where decisions can be very severe in their consequences. Keep the action at a high point at the last round, setting it up for a great ending. It will also make a duel more rewarding for everyone involved if the ending feels fluent and not just a result of a premature last stand.
Ways to Own It? Well, I'll say this. It works very well in long or very damaging duels. If your character is getting beaten up, it actually would make sense to go for a last ditch effort. If the duel is incredibly long, and taking its toll on everyone involved, someone may want to just end it.
Atleast the Setup was good
This one is simple: the duel is setup for way to long, preparing it for something awesome. Then, since the setup took up a huge bulk of the time of the duel, the real duel has to be lackluster and fast, and nothing like it was setup. Don't worry, you can definitely work with it.
Ways to Subvert It? Actually, there are tons. One great way is to make the posts much longer, so you can wrap up a ton of setup in one or two posts. All you have is to keep posts so long that you can fit in the epic setup and epic duel. Or, you decide to make the duel very focused on the duel, or more focused on the setup, instead of squeezing in both.
Ways to Own It? Make your setup for a quick, on the cuff skirmish. That way, the duel can be very fast and quick, but still work with your nice setup. Or, you can decide to make it so the duel was not supposed to be some epic, legend-worthy affair. Make it so that you are setting up something that is meant to be wussy or lackluster. A duel isn't all about the fighting, so don't think it will make the duel really awful. Just work with everything else, and it will be just like the Ob-Wan vs Vader duel, which, despite having terrible choreography, had so much of everything else that it worked.
Good Old fisticuffs
This is when something happens to the weapons and such and it goes into a melee, or something similar. Even something to the point of losing far range weapons and being on only close range, weak ones. It rarely works, since many characters would not ever be in a situation like it.
Ways to Subvert It? Simple. If your character is a Jedi, then have them force pull their lightsaber back to them. If they are a devious smuggler, then have them run off to pickup their blaster instead of rushing in for some fighting with their fists. Oh, and that moment when your weapon falls of a cliff or into lava? Usually, that's a good time to go on the retreat.
Ways to Own It? Well, if your character benefits from martial arts and hand-to-hand combat, they may disarm their opponent and sheathe their blades for a round or two of fisticuffs. Or, you can use your fists to get out of a very close-quarters situation where you don't have a weapon. Just don't turn the fight into something from an Olympic Martial Arts tournament, and make everything seem natural for survival.
And one final cliche, although not combat related...
I guess I can squeeze it in my character?
This is just a peeve of mine. I don't see this much on this RP forum, but on others, it is just too prominent. I hate it when someone has a clearly defined character, and then has them do something completely out of character. If you are a Saint of kindness, then why do you just have them yell at and do somewhat rude things to others. It's fine to make a multi-layered character, but then you really have to do a good job with it.
How to Subvert It? Well, you can easily stick to a very simple personality that is never changed at all. It may be a little boring, but at least it makes more sense. Or, you can make a multi-layered character, but showcase this other lesser-known side more often than once or twice. Make sure its a side that isn't too well known, but does exist.
How to Own It? Well, this is tough, but I can think of one way. Once they do this out of character thing, it begins developing into their character and creating something new in them, that actually becomes awesome.
Well, that concludes those that I've seen, let me know how I did!
Padawan = Sith Grandmaster
I know this isn't as possible to avoid as other cliches on this list, but that doesn't make it feel any better. When you are engaging in a duel when one person is clearly stronger than the other, it just feels almost unnatural to see the weaker one fight on even ground with the far stronger one, and really lowers the over all realism of the story.
Ways to Subvert It? If your character has any common sense, they would go on the defensive. Keep walking backwards, only using defensive moves. Heck, chuck things at them, or just plain run, screaming like a girl. One of the strongest ways to still earn the same wow factor as your enemy, if not more, is to keep the duel at a distance, and focus mostly on your character's mentality, as they try and work around this far deadlier foe.
Ways to Own It? The most realistic way is to underestimate or not understand who your enemy is, causing you to go in on them. Maybe, if you play to your strengths and they to their weaknesses, it can look even. Or, if your character is very headstrong or overconfident, maybe they can go in, and not realize that they are getting caught in something deadly.
Overall, this isn't anywhere near the worst cliche on the list, and can definitely slide.
Wait, it's the last round? All or nothing then.
I can't really explain why this pieves me so much, but it really does. Most of the time, a good duel ends without one of these, but some of the good duels have All or nothings and pull them off well, but properly pacing the duel and making it seem logical that the characters are running out of time, and need to pull one off. But most of the time when I see this, its just a way to make the last round seem way more climactic then would have logically made sense. It usually makes no sense for the duel, and just brings down the duel, especially if it is getting down and gritty by the end.
Ways to Subvert It? Simple. Don't make it a last stand. In a lot of duels, even in the movies, the characters rarely realize that they are about to die or lose a duel, and this is their last stand. Just have the duel be at an incredibly tense moment, where decisions can be very severe in their consequences. Keep the action at a high point at the last round, setting it up for a great ending. It will also make a duel more rewarding for everyone involved if the ending feels fluent and not just a result of a premature last stand.
Ways to Own It? Well, I'll say this. It works very well in long or very damaging duels. If your character is getting beaten up, it actually would make sense to go for a last ditch effort. If the duel is incredibly long, and taking its toll on everyone involved, someone may want to just end it.
Atleast the Setup was good
This one is simple: the duel is setup for way to long, preparing it for something awesome. Then, since the setup took up a huge bulk of the time of the duel, the real duel has to be lackluster and fast, and nothing like it was setup. Don't worry, you can definitely work with it.
Ways to Subvert It? Actually, there are tons. One great way is to make the posts much longer, so you can wrap up a ton of setup in one or two posts. All you have is to keep posts so long that you can fit in the epic setup and epic duel. Or, you decide to make the duel very focused on the duel, or more focused on the setup, instead of squeezing in both.
Ways to Own It? Make your setup for a quick, on the cuff skirmish. That way, the duel can be very fast and quick, but still work with your nice setup. Or, you can decide to make it so the duel was not supposed to be some epic, legend-worthy affair. Make it so that you are setting up something that is meant to be wussy or lackluster. A duel isn't all about the fighting, so don't think it will make the duel really awful. Just work with everything else, and it will be just like the Ob-Wan vs Vader duel, which, despite having terrible choreography, had so much of everything else that it worked.
Good Old fisticuffs
This is when something happens to the weapons and such and it goes into a melee, or something similar. Even something to the point of losing far range weapons and being on only close range, weak ones. It rarely works, since many characters would not ever be in a situation like it.
Ways to Subvert It? Simple. If your character is a Jedi, then have them force pull their lightsaber back to them. If they are a devious smuggler, then have them run off to pickup their blaster instead of rushing in for some fighting with their fists. Oh, and that moment when your weapon falls of a cliff or into lava? Usually, that's a good time to go on the retreat.
Ways to Own It? Well, if your character benefits from martial arts and hand-to-hand combat, they may disarm their opponent and sheathe their blades for a round or two of fisticuffs. Or, you can use your fists to get out of a very close-quarters situation where you don't have a weapon. Just don't turn the fight into something from an Olympic Martial Arts tournament, and make everything seem natural for survival.
And one final cliche, although not combat related...
I guess I can squeeze it in my character?
This is just a peeve of mine. I don't see this much on this RP forum, but on others, it is just too prominent. I hate it when someone has a clearly defined character, and then has them do something completely out of character. If you are a Saint of kindness, then why do you just have them yell at and do somewhat rude things to others. It's fine to make a multi-layered character, but then you really have to do a good job with it.
How to Subvert It? Well, you can easily stick to a very simple personality that is never changed at all. It may be a little boring, but at least it makes more sense. Or, you can make a multi-layered character, but showcase this other lesser-known side more often than once or twice. Make sure its a side that isn't too well known, but does exist.
How to Own It? Well, this is tough, but I can think of one way. Once they do this out of character thing, it begins developing into their character and creating something new in them, that actually becomes awesome.
Well, that concludes those that I've seen, let me know how I did!