Censored Words

[Dutch]

I liked Karl's idea of putting a note in the title if the thread will be "vulgar". In previous site's I've been apart of/run, we always put {M} (for mature) in the title of threads that maybe aren't a good idea for youngins' to read. This covered anything very violent, sexual, and inappropriate in any manner. This way we could still have "vulgar" threads, but it warns anyone of it's contents- so that if they choose to read said thread, the staff could wipe their hands clean of any complaints. And as for the whole "proboards not allowing vulgar stuff" thing, some sites I've been on people have rp'd some rather... sexual exploits, and nothing happened. I personally don't approve, but the placing of the {M} worked famously for us.

[Mara]

Nothing happen to those forums because there was never anyone smart enough to report the site.


Anyway, I would have no problem in editing the current censored words list, but I definitely think there are certain words that should stay on the censored words list. By no means should we allow every word out there.

And I don't care if "most of us" are adults "with adult characters." In my experience, obscenities are used 99% of the time because someone doesn't have anything better to articulate, not because it enhances the flavor of a story.

I agree that some words are okay, because they are in the SW canon. And there are plenty of good words that we can use instead, also from the SW universe. And I am not speaking just from the side of censorship but on the side of being canonical. We want this RP to be as realistic to SW, right? Well, there are some swear words that I have never heard anyone in SW ever say.

And, yes, we could put little disclaimers on threads, but is that 100% solution to keeping those words just in those threads?
Plus, I personally don't like a lot of those swear words, and I don't want to have to make sure my characters only enter with other players/characters, just because I don't want to see a certain word. The threads I could RP in would drastically reduce in size.

I dunno.. I just think swearing used mostly because the writer is too immature and unimaginative to come up with something better.

[Dutch]

You gotta realize as a staff member, that you can't get what you want always, you gotta take in what your members like, think of the greater good for the site. You're here to help the members, and give them what they want regardless what you want or think. That's part of being a staff member.

[C_Munkie *Wishing For A/C*]

Jul 21, 2009 21:37:03 GMT -5 Dutch said:

You gotta realize as a staff member, that you can't get what you want always, you gotta take in what your members like, think of the greater good for the site. You're here to help the members, and give them what they want regardless what you want or think. That's part of being a staff member.

The "greater good of the site"? I would wager that maintaining the speech code would actually encourage membership instead of pushing people away. I mean, how many people would look at the site and say, "Ugh... these guys won't let me swear to my little hearts content, I am outta here." Most of the forums have strict guidelines on what you cannot say. The standards we have are the norm. Now lets say the whole no swearing thing is dropped, I imagine there would be quite a few people, (young and otherwise,) who would sign on and be completely turned off by it.

By the way, I would just like to point something out: Star Wars is supposed to be family friendly.

[Karl the Unfettered]

Family friendly, yes, at the cost of a large degree of realism.

Why do you think they really had lightsabers around? Some mythic weapon only a few could use, that cauterized instantly? Not quite; it was included because there's no blood. No blood, no way to offend.

Why do you think they used blasters instead of regular guns (yes, I know Luke had a rifle, but did he actually shoot anyone with it?)? Cool laser-y effects and mini explosions? Again, not quite; mostly, it was for no blood.

The real reason all this laser stuff and dumbed-down lexicon was used was so Lucas could avoid an R-rating for his flicks and get as many people as possible to watch them, thus increasing his profits. Profit motive, y'see? And I see no reason whatsoever why we should be inhibited by a few men and their lust for the green.

Yes, most of the time people cuss cuz they're ignorant 'tards who don't know no other way of saying it. But there's other reasons for it, which I won't get into cuz it'd get us into deep discussions this thread isn't for. I believe there's a difference between canon and realism, and that in situations such as this we should go for realism; perhaps the reason you never heard "bad" words said in the movies was cuz they followed the heroes, not the scummy drunken pirates (again with the profit motive and the widest-possible target audience, y'see?). I submit that simply because one never hears certain words, that doesn't mean those words aren't around.

EDIT: I forgot to mention... I cannot stand political correctness in any form, not in the least. Call it like it is, I say!

[Jace]

Jul 21, 2009 21:31:05 GMT -5 Mara said:

I dunno.. I just think swearing used mostly because the writer is too immature and unimaginative to come up with something better.

I am sorry I really don't agree with this. Yes, we as writers may be able to find a more articulate way to say, but your character isn't. Honestly if your character is some drunken pilot and your saying "He tosses obscenities" instead of giving a more specific word then I think your avoiding who he really is. Swearing does give a more raw feel to your character. Writing is not always about finesse,sometimes it can be in your face. Either way I don't think you should chalk someone down to being immature just because their character swears.

The other thing I noticed, Why is everyone acting like as soon as the censor is gone that everyone is going to be swearing all over the place. There are about 100 ways to get around the censor, and nobody has. I doubt anyone is really going to be filling their posts with profanity, so everyone just needs to calm their hormones.

[Squee]

Here's my story, and I'll be sticking to it:

Cussing, if used, should be handled maturely and delicately. Yes, they are words. The old saying "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words may never hurt me" was created by a person either ignorant and stupid, or someone who really didn't give a crap. The one thing I'm afraid of is someone's feelings getting hurt. I know it sounds silly, but, there are so many people who feel through their characters. And the way some words are translated may be taken to heart instead of just roleplay. This is said person's fault, yes, and that's the way so many of us think. We figure everyone can act maturely, can take things maturely, and react to things maturely. And, half the time, people do not.

So, I rule out no swearing across the entire board. There's no point to that. Someone may now argue to me that "they are just words". Yes, words that have been developed for negative effect and are simply frowned upon by dozens of people, though it is common in young life today. People on the board here are still teenagers, reached their eighteenth mark, or even up to twenty-five. It's been my experience this is basically a rebelling stage and everyone cusses. I am afraid, in due time is someone figures they can get away with it site-wide, there will come a time were we are seeing thousands of cuss words littering everywhere. This is also an experience of mine. I have left that site due to the rise in cussing, resulting in f-bombs strewn out everywhere like it's cool. Quite frankly, rebels, it isn't cool.

Now, roleplaying and writing is a different story. Like I said, if we decide to do allow cussing in the roleplay, we're taking a risk on whether people act mature enough while writing. A step of faith and experimentation. Yes, we CAN put warnings up. To me, however, this is warning me that there's going to be twenty cuss words per post. And realize, though it is the reader's fault is indeed they read it, even then the reader may be TERRIBLY offended by the content. And then the admins have to deal with things they don't want to deal with, and this is something we don't think about too much because, again, we figure everyone can be mature about it and STOP READING. But there are those who won't.

I wouldn't call allowing curse words into writing "spicing up a roleplay". You don't have to use profanities to spice up anything. It is not NEEDED. I don't even understand why that is even an EXCUSE to use cuss words.

However there can be some parts where a profanity FITS THE MOOD of a roleplay. This doesn't mean a long string of vulgarity filled sentences. I can see some soldier seeing an operation going all wrong and going "@#%!". And this is what requires so much maturity as writers. This is how I handle things. And I don't know if that may happen. And like a few people have said before, there are always canon swear words. I'm sure you can even FIND THEM somewhere. This is an SW world. Try to maintain it an SW world by using the language given to us. Otherwise, this place is no longer SW.

A test of faith, is what this will be. If it goes through, I say give it some time. If the cussing gets out of hand, I say it has to end. Nothing can be given without a consequence. I do not wish to see another site destroyed because language was allowed.

~Squee

[Kella]

xD I find it somewhat amusing to mention that in A New Hope, when Obi-Wan cuts off the Alien's arm in the Cantina, you see the dismembered arm on the ground. With blood. X) Which is probably a canon inconsistency, but somewhat contradicts the 'mission' to have no blood.

~

That was very, very well-articulated, Squee. I do think there is a difference between curse-words in general, and vulgarities. Vulgarities are pointless, (including the f-one,) and really add nothing to a roleplay. I generally tend to group harsh exclamations with curse-words, treat them as a lump sum, and go from there, but I can see that present discussion certainly runs deeper than that.

To those who use it sparingly, and with good taste, I don't think the censors have been a great issue, up to this point.

Thus being said, Jace did bring up a good point about people avoiding censors. Sadly, it's really not all that hard. Which, I think, brings this down to more of a debate of the sort of message we want to project, in RP. Do we want the usual censors in place, to protect younger members? Or do we remove the censor, and have faith in the maturity and integrity of the members of SWU? Certainly a topic for debate and discussion, and it has been well-treated as such.

As far as OOC goes I think the censors definitely still need to be in place. If somebody has an argument worth making, they ought to be able to articulate it without the use of potentially offending language. OOC is where most-- but not all-- flaming occurs, in any event.

[Apillis]

I have to agree with Squee and Mara really, to reiterate, yeah in RL, swearing - I honestly don't care, but as an SW nerdraging purist fangirl, I do, in regards to swearing. As for the excuse of playing a "drunken pirate" or some such needing curse words for "realism" or "spice". Balderdash, I says! Any of you watch Pirates of the Caribbean? Notice how many drunken pirates were in that movie? How often did you here them say "s***" or "f***" or "c***" etc etc etc? Seen those movies I don't know how many times now, and outside of something like "damn", "hell", or "ass" I can't think of a single curse word thrown out there by any of the pirates; and those are words I don't even consider swear words really. Ever grow up reading Treasure Island? How many drunken sailors and pirates were in that book? Damn near every single one of them was drunk. Were there any offensive swear words in it? Nope. So, the excuse you need swear words to fulfill the sanctity of the character within RP, I tend to disagree with completely. You don't need them, let's be honest here, you just want the option to use to them. Which is entirely different.

You can say, "Oh well, that's because those are PG movies and novels. Not PG-13.", Well, in fact SW is a PG movie and novel series. Revenge of the Sith is the only one of that received a PG-13 rating, and so again how much swearing did you hear in it? None. Some of the games are Teen rated, which is PG-13 essentially, but do you here any swear words outside of the mild "hell", "ass", or "damn"? Nope. So, really, the whole thing of "needing it" to be more true to the character is simply an illusion, you don't need it. You may want to use it with your character, but again, that is an entirely different set of arguments that have to be made.

[Sait]

I have to agree with the point Karl has made here. A lot of films are intended to invoke an audience of all ages that can watch it. Especially something as classic as SW. How many children are introduced and become fans of the series even now, as it's already been completed? Quite a few. It's an easy way to make money, appeal to adults using complex situations like war and love and appealing to children with great heroics and amazing sci-fi weaponry.

Swearing does have a place that it's insertion will tell a lot about a character and improve the storyline. Roleplaying the swearing is the key. A character like Dooku who's always calm and collected getting his arm lopped off would probably not induce cursing, but someone who panics frequently or is highly tense will more than likely throw in a "Damnit, you sliced off my arm! You'll pay for that!" as opposed to "Gosh, you sliced off my arm! I'll get you for that!" I could interpret the second phrase in two ways: A sarcastic manner or a serious one. The first can only be taken one way.

Apillis has a great point of her own too. The excessive words really don't need to be used in role-play; though I can think of at least a few instances where they would definitely make sense. Take, for instance, your Jedi warrior standing face-to-face with a 4,000 ton Star Destroyer ready to assault him. I highly doubt he's going to be calm and peaceful about it-- I know I would drop at least a few f-bombs if I came up against that personally-- but in general situations it isn't necessary.

I think Squee said it best when she said it depends on HOW it's used rather than it being used in the first place. I mean, just randomly sitting in a tavern shouting obscenities to describe how drunk you are is simply pointless. If you're being dismembered by an armored tank, that's a different story. The person is what makes it proper context or not, but it's pretty hard to judge what is proper or improper timing.

[sparrow]

Jul 22, 2009 5:41:45 GMT -5 Sait said:

Take, for instance, your Jedi warrior standing face-to-face with a 4,000 ton Star Destroyer ready to assault him. I highly doubt he's going to be calm and peaceful about it-- I know I would drop at least a few f-bombs if I came up against that personally-- but in general situations it isn't necessary.

Actually that's the part where the Jedi stares calmly at the camera and says, "I've got a bad feeling about this."

[Mara]

Actually, I had an epiphany last night... so just go with me for a second.

I know there is a code somewhere, basically a spoiler code. However, perhaps we could use something like that to put in the "offensive" words? I know the code isn't perfect; it would really distort the length of a post, as other times I have seen it used.

Or, perhaps you could just use a black front (if you're using the skin with the black colors/stars, otherwise another color so it 'disappears') around the word, so if someone wants to see it, they can highlight it.


Or maybe this is just silly.



Anyway, I still don't see how using one of our RL swear words is any different than shouting out 'Kriff' or 'Blast it' or a host of other terminology used in the SW universe.

I also do not see how using the real words in your post enhances your character. I, personally, do have a bounty hunter character, who is Corellian and who definitely does get angry, really angry, at times. And I don't think it diminishes his character or his power for me to write out something like "and he used a string of the many obscenities he learned from his days on Nar Shaddaa" instead of just typing out the f-word.


And I don't care if people can still circumvent the filter even if it is still in place. People (most people) should know better, OOC especially, which words are polite to say in mixed computer, whether there is a filter or not.

This is a PG-13 forum and I think we need to keep our language to that rating. This site is not advertised as being mature. It's advertised as being for all ages and all writing skill levels. We don't want to alienate anyone that might not like to see all that foul language.

And I, for one, am one of them. I don't mind things like "hell," "damn" and "ass," but I think we should still ban other words like the s- and f-word. Yes, I know they are "just words," and no one word is really worse than another, but in our society some have taken on worse connotations than others.


I agree with Squee, to the point where if you or your character really needs to use profanity because that is the only thing that fits in that point and time--and I know that sometimes that is the only word that could make sense, I understand that--but if so, perhaps we could just keep true to which universe we are living in. I don't see how "kriff" is so much more childish than our own swear words.

And honestly, if I see some of those more 'vulgar' words used on here in the near future, I'm not sure if I would stay here. I come here to relax and have fun, friendly fun. If I had wanted a mature forum, I would have joined one instead of this awesome place.


I guess what I'm trying to say is, I vote against changing anything. Let's keep the censored words for OOC and IC. Let's keep this place PG-13 and friendly. It has worked completely fine up until now, and I see no reason to change it. Some people ARE offended by some of those words, including me, and we don't want to alienate them by putting disclaimers in threads so that they cannot post there.

So, yeah.

[Karl the Unfettered]

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and be honest about my opinions regarding all this.

As I have stated before, I strongly, very very strongly, disagree with censorship and political correctness of any sort; reasons and excuses aside, if I want to say something a certain way, no power or person on earth can stop me. Nor can any power or person, myself included, stop anyone else from doing the same.

I further believe that if someone else read or overheard such, and were offended by it, then it is that person's fault for having a thin skin, or (as I believe) for seeking a reason to be offended. One can bang on all one likes about being polite or being sensitive, and while I do agree there is such a thing as context and being aware of one's environment, that shouldn't be able to stop you. Offense, like a great many other things, is in the eye (or ear) of the beholder.

This isn't just some random issue for me, it's something I really believe in. Freedom of expression (and most everything else) for everyone, everywhere, every time; that's my creed.

[Dire Wolf]

((>_< turned out a bit more sarcastic than I would have liked, is what I get for my usual attempt at the "playful" tone. Mah bad))

.... woah, folks. Don't you guys think that you are blowing this out of proportion a bit? Saying that sites will be destroyed, you will leave, fire will rain down from the heavens, and God himself will cry tears of pain and anguish simply because we allow a few arrangements of words that are considered "bad" by society's standards?

To be honest, I doubt that allowing "vulgar" or "curse" words on the IC section of the site will change much at all. I'll have been with this site for a year in October, RPing for about a year and a half, and I can honestly say that I can think of but a handful of times that I have felt the need to use a vulgar word. Some of us are acting like this will open the proverbial flood gates of abbadon's wrath and cast us to the brink of fiery damnation.

That said, lets hit the brakes a bit and think before saying that people will be hitting their F, S, H, U, I, C, T, and K keys like it is goin' out of style. Because, honestly, as much as I've gained a certain amount of disillusionment about people in general over the years, I can't bring myself to believe that people will just start swearing in every other post.

Now, there are times when using vulgar words is appropriate, and to be honest the insertion of any other word would just sound awkward and ridiculous. Drunken Pirates have been used alot here, some believe that all that they say is swear words. Not so. And likewise, I daresay that Cap'n Jack Sparra and his ilk wouldn't hesitate to yell out a string of obscenities from here 'till judgement day should the situation require it.

I admit, this notion of cursing in character is far from needed, and if it succeeds I seriously doubt that it will change any of my posts (as I've said above). Now, think, do you honestly believe that if this little censor on a few little arrangements of vowels and consonants is lifted that people will begin cursing in copious amounts?

No.

If it does prove to be a problem us staffers can just as easily shroud the site in the dark mist of the censor once again. No harm, no foul. So its really not that much of a big deal, in my own personal opinion.

I liked Karl's idea of putting a note in the title if the thread will be "vulgar". In previous site's I've been apart of/run, we always put {M} (for mature) in the title of threads that maybe aren't a good idea for youngins' to read. This covered anything very violent, sexual, and inappropriate in any manner. This way we could still have "vulgar" threads, but it warns anyone of it's contents- so that if they choose to read said thread, the staff could wipe their hands clean of any complaints. And as for the whole "proboards not allowing vulgar stuff" thing, some sites I've been on people have rp'd some rather... sexual exploits, and nothing happened. I personally don't approve, but the placing of the {M} worked famously for us.

/agree

Why was this idea more or less ignored?

[Dutch]

/agree

Why was this idea more or less ignored?

<_< First of all, ty for at least acknowledging that. And also, it was ignored becausesome people here prolly assume that just because I'm new to this site, I'm a complete and total noob who doesn't know anything or whatever. But yes, I think it is a good median in saying that if more mature threads are allowed, then they should have the {M} put in the title. If this is chosen, it would be up to the staff what would be considered {M}. Even if it's saying the s-e-x word... >.>

[Keilara]

Jul 22, 2009 18:50:49 GMT -5 Karl the Unfettered said:

As I have stated before, I strongly, very very strongly, disagree with censorship and political correctness of any sort; reasons and excuses aside, if I want to say something a certain way, no power or person on earth can stop me. Nor can any power or person, myself included, stop anyone else from doing the same.

I further believe that if someone else read or overheard such, and were offended by it, then it is that person's fault for having a thin skin, or (as I believe) for seeking a reason to be offended. One can bang on all one likes about being polite or being sensitive, and while I do agree there is such a thing as context and being aware of one's environment, that shouldn't be able to stop you. Offense, like a great many other things, is in the eye (or ear) of the beholder.

This isn't just some random issue for me, it's something I really believe in. Freedom of expression (and most everything else) for everyone, everywhere, every time; that's my creed.

Karl *gives puppy eyes* would you like to join my other two hubbies and be my hubby? This just about sums up how I feel about all of this. People will allow themselves to be offended always. It is not my responsibility to make sure that my life is unoffensive to you anymore than it is your right to make sure you are unoffensive to me. If we all did that we'd end up in the catch 22 of

"I am offended by your being offended by my taking offense at you being offended"

All in all I find much of this to be quite silly. There have been some good points made. I frankly feel that Jace and Sait both said and summed up how things are. As far as the swearing being allowed in the OOC areas, I see nothing in the poll numbers to show that that is likely to happen. So let's focus on the IC areas.

One of the big things I've seen thrown around in posts is that this forum is rated PG-13 not Mature. So I went and dug up the descriptions of what the film ratings mean as pertains to content.

Parental Guidance Suggested. Some Material May Not Be Suitable For Children.
A PG-rated motion picture should be investigated by parents before they let their younger children attend. The PG rating indicates, in the view of the Rating Board, that parents may consider some material unsuitable for their children, and parents should make that decision.

The more mature themes in some PG-rated motion pictures may call for parental guidance. There may be some profanity and some depictions of violence or brief nudity. But these elements are not deemed so intense as to require that parents be strongly cautioned beyond the suggestion of parental guidance. There is no drug use content in a PG-rated motion picture.

So right off, I am going to point out that even in PG films there may be profanity, violence, or even nudity. Note: I am in no way attempting to advocate allowing nudity onto this forum. Don't even try to say that.

Parents Strongly Cautioned. Some Material May Be Inappropriate For Children Under 13.
A PG-13 rating is a sterner warning by the Rating Board to parents to determine whether their children under age 13 should view the motion picture, as some material might not be suited for them. A PG-13 motion picture may go beyond the PG rating in theme, violence, nudity, sensuality, language, adult activities or other elements, but does not reach the restricted R category. The theme of the motion picture by itself will not result in a rating greater than PG-13, although depictions of activities related to a mature theme may result in a restricted rating for the motion picture. Any drug use will initially require at least a PG-13 rating. More than brief nudity will require at least a PG-13 rating, but such nudity in a PG-13 rated motion picture generally will not be sexually oriented. There may be depictions of violence in a PG-13 movie, but generally not both realistic and extreme or persistent violence. A motion picture’s single use of one of the harsher sexually-derived words, though only as an expletive, initially requires at least a PG-13 rating. More than one such expletive requires an R rating, as must even one of those words used in a sexual context. The Rating Board nevertheless may rate such a motion picture PG-13 if, based on a special vote by a two-thirds majority, the Raters feel that most American parents would believe that a PG-13 rating is appropriate because of the context or manner in which the words are used or because the use of those words in the motion picture is inconspicuous.

More swearing. Swearing that, as seen above, was permitted in PG rated films. Note that the distinction in swear words that push the rating into the R category are "harsher sexually-derived words."

Am going to make something clear. As I said in my first post it may be wise to censor the F-word. And to elaborate I personally see no need for anyone to use the c-word. But Lord knows I've typed out son of a b**** and been censored. I don't even think about that being swearing it's just what the expression that was needed at that moment was.

To be quite frank, as Jace pointed out, in the heat of the moment it's going to really knock up the flow of a post if say for example, Fable is in battle and she suddenly goes,

Lets out an expletive, firing back at the Republican sons of pregnant dogs as Mal was shot.

I'm sorry. Thats just going to look silly. There are times and places, as with all of this, that things are appropriate. The heat of battle is not one of them.

Lastly, just for reference

Restricted. Children Under 17 Require Accompanying Parent or Adult Guardian.
An R-rated motion picture, in the view of the Rating Board, contains some adult material. An R-rated motion picture may include adult themes, adult activity, hard language, intense or persistent violence, sexually-oriented nudity, drug abuse or other elements, so that parents are counseled to take this rating very seriously. Children under 17 are not allowed to attend R-rated motion pictures unaccompanied by a parent or adult guardian. Parents are strongly urged to find out more about R-rated motion pictures in determining their suitability for their children. Generally, it is not appropriate for parents to bring their young children with them to R-rated motion pictures.

Hard Language....
I leave that up to interpretation. I have expressed twice now what I feel falls into that category.

All in all, as Dire pointed out, it is far from likely that anyone who is an established member of this forum will suddenly, now that they are loosed from their chains of censorship, will punch in the words like they're going out of style.

This forum is full of good rp'ers who have a love for the forum and for it's content. Point in case, that thread of Jace and Vreem's from way back when had some violent posts in it. Vreem took it upon himself to mark the posts with nice warnings so people could skip them. If there is so much concern over the issue then I see nothing wrong with people marking threads as Mature because of swearing content. But lets be reasonable here, how likely is it that there will be so much swearing in any one post or thread that it would need such a designation.

Everyone take a step back, as Dire said, and look at this rationally. I see no need to make threats about leaving and so forth or say things such as you will refuse to rp with someone who swears in their threads all that does is stir up emotion. This is not a discussion that should be viewed and responded to through emotion at all. It is simply a feeler for the Admin to see how they should proceed with all this.



SIDENOTE:
Max, I adore you. New or not you've brought only good things ^^ I loved the idea.

[Dutch]

Yay, I feel loved. And as a backup for what was just said, I want to add a concrete example of what PG-13 is these days in a movie I felt was under-rated, but then again, I love Transformers

In Transformers 2, a PG-13 movie, there were several words said and actions done that even surprised me. Wheelie humping that useless chick, the other Decepticon useless chick trying to seduce Sam. The useless twins calling some a p*ssy, I mean wow was I surprised. But then again, look at what type of music most people listen to these days. And guess what, ratings or not, I see six year olds listening to rap about porkin' a prostitute then blowing her brains out all over a wall. (Yeah, I really dislike modern music -_-) So think of this: SWU will not get to that level, I can tell that from it's members, but think of the times we're in. Either you're desensitized to the profanity, or you're really upset over it. And lemme ask this- is it worth sitting there screaming no instead of talking it out?

[Apillis]

I don't care about other PG or PG-13 movies, I just care about the levels of the PG and PG-13 rating in Star Wars as this is a Star Wars RP Forum.

I cited the other examples in my previous post as to dispel the notion to uphold the sanctity of a "drunken pirate" (for example) you need curse words to be believable. That's actually quite false in both fiction and reality, I already cited fiction based examples for such. But for reality for example, Edward Teach was perhaps one of the most twisted, vicious, and brutal pirates in history, and yet, believe or not, he never really used swear words even the ones by his eras standards. Need them? No, you don't, if you want to use them - fine, argue that, but this notion you need them to be more realistic makes little sense as it's not true. The reality being boils down to the authors preference rather than actually needing swear words for anything.

As for this whole thing on a censorship on political level... Right now I'm just going to politely ask that you stop with this. Why you may ask? Because this is about simple SW-motif here, and you're going to bog it down with flippin' social politics on censorship when it's a family based franchise? Is it really worth it to go on socio-politico tangent over it? Is that really a battle you want to fight? Personally, it makes as much sense to me as an animal rights activist demanding a Gummy Bear factory cut production because of their cruelty to bears. I mean, it's flippin' Star Wars, let it go.

[10Tickler]

I've self-censored all my RP posts :F

[Dutch]

^ See? If you really hate swears, you can censure them. Once more, an agreement that helps everyone. Good thinking Gadget