SWU Concerns

[Moonfire]

Alright everyone, let me start this off by first apologizing for my activity level lately. For those of you who have seen my Hiatus thread you understand somewhat what life has been like for Cain and I the past few months, for those of you who haven't I'll give you a short recap; Cross Country Move, Internship, Jobs, and 60 hour work weeks while trying to move into our first apartment while juggling our first out-of-college jobs and trying to get a hold on having responsible adult lives. Fun stuff, as I'm sure you know! XD

Anywho, I'm sure many of you have noticed the activity level of SWU lately, and while I am certainly guilty of quite a bit (the of the month awards, oh gods how have a fallen so far behiiiiind!) there have been some concerns voiced at me and some of the other staff.

But what I, what all of the staff, want to know is what you guys the member think? Is there something lacking? Do you have any suggestions on how things can be fixed?

What I'm trying to say is this is your forum too, and we all work together to make it the best it can be, thats why we joined right?! We want to have fun, to enjoy ourselves and make some cool characters and cool stories.

Staff activity has been lacking, yes. This isn't an opinion, it is fact. Like I said, even I am guilty. Right now most of the staff have real lives they're attending to, and once December comes most of us will be freed up more, giving us more time to address the problem of activity, make strives to fix these.

But for now, I want to extend an invitation that if there is a problem, other than the obvious of staff activity problems, that you want addressed please tell us now. We're here to help. =3

Do you have suggestions on how we could handle these situations or the problems you're facing? Please share as well, and the staff will try and address them =3.

And perhaps this is also a good forum for the staff to share a little insight into how things have been for them schedule wise. Anyways, have it loves!

[Fromikeable]

I'm not sure that this qualifies as a suggestion so much as it does an observation/opinion, but nevertheless here it goes.

I really can't see a reason as to why I should try and become an NGT (not that I'm really qualified, but still).

"Why?" you might ask.

Well, I'll admit that getting a blue name sounds appealing. People come to you for help, you are somewhat prestigious, and beyond both of those is the idea that at some point you could possibly become one of the people in charge of an entire section! I mean you have to admit that sounds pretty cool, right?

... Kay, power-hunger subdued. Onwards!

But for all of that, the utter and total hell of life that seems to come with a color in your name just makes me want to stay out of it all. I'm trying not to be one-sided, but I think I can say without fear of offense that the staff on this site go through a lot of drama.

Like, A LOT.

And frankly, that makes me wonder why in the world anyone would want to be there, which makes me reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally just not want to get involved. Half the staff isn't around, the other half is bickering, I mean it just sounds a one way ticket to paradise.

Did I say paradise? I meant utter displeasure every time you load SWU. My mistake.

I guess what I'm trying to get at here is that the general explosiveness between staff members can get a little old, especially when you can recognize that it really puts us regular ol' standard members in awkward scenarios, kind of like kids trying to stay out of the way as parents bicker.

Well, that's not entirely accurate either. I've been here for a good year now, and yet I can't really call any of the staff "parents" in that calling them such would demand that I have some sort of connection to them. I'll admit I was friends with lmr when he was a staff member, but I'm not talking about mods and admins becoming chums with every single member so much as just them seeming a little more...

... approachable. I sort of fear the admins personally; they're the guys with red names lurking around every so often that make me feel like I had better make sure my shoes are tied. I know they mean no harm, but generally people running sites are a bit more... well-known.

Anyway, that's all that comes to mind at the moment. I might edit in a little more when my sister isn't blasting Conan in my ear (Russel Brand is making me NOT laugh -____- ).

Also, as a bit of an after-thought, I'd just like to say that I only speak for myself here, as I won't pretend to know verbatim the opinions of others. Mine is, of course, subject to change.

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo yeah. There ya' go.

[Ghostie]

I do not doubt your new hectic life Mooney. I can only imagine what starting a life up after college is like. I know I can only hope I get there someday. Though, I'll probably be just as clueless.

That thing about clueless, came out wrong didn't it? Dang.

However, while I do not doubt your hectic life, other people on SWU are just as busy. We have people going through all kinds of school. We have people dealing with family drama and work problems. We even have people in active military.

SWU is something we all consider extra curricular. We take extra time out of our day (or what time is left) to come and make awesome stories and characters.

The old saying (at least on SWU), "Real life comes first", has always been true. There's no reason a person should give up their life for a forum.

However, a site can run into quite a couple of problems when their staff is inactive. Sections get clogged up, people get impatient, and then people leave. This isn't to blame anyone, but rather point something out.

I would like to suggest something here. A roving Mod. A Mod (preferrably someone who's been a Mod for awhile, or someone who's been one before) who can work different sections when that section's mod has been inactive for awhile. And then, when things on SWU are good (If they are ever... That was a joke.) that mod can have some down time, and not have to do anything.

I'm not sure how adding more people will work. It could help or just be worse. Mike was right, the staff bickers, and people notice. That is something we have to work on as well, getting the staff to get along.

But this may be something we can try for awhile, and if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

[0bserver]

Spice must flow.

That's basically my opinion on the whole subject. I am, personally, very distressed about what's going on in here lately. Sections going on without a single approval for months, and literally nothing done about it. Took long enough for this thread to even appear. Sure, we all have lives and sometimes people get entangled in it. But being a mod is not a privilege, it is a job. If you're too busy to do it - resign for the time being. And give it to someone else.

And yes, at this point, anyone who would be eager to step up. There can be long talks about 'nobody being qualified enough', that 'sith mod is different from fringe mod' etcetera, but fact is this place loses a lot of potential members, just because some sections are not attended to. A guy comes around with a sith charrie in mind, looks at the section, and sees that there are a dozen unapproved apps piled up. You think he's gonna wait very long for approval? Wrong. The site is not THAT good to wait that much.

I hope some seed of reason will reach most of the staff through this topic. Because I've seen many brush off legit concerns under the premise of 'people are always b*tching and whining about something'.

[Lemur, The Kool-Aid Guy]

Now that I'm no longer staff, I can be classed as a regular member.

So here's my two cents.

Spark notes version for people who don't like me: Bla bla bla, bla, bla bla, blargh. Blech. Blerg. Bla.

Full text:

SWU is a great site. But in my opinion that greatness is due to name brand recognition. We're the top, the tower of Pisa, we're the smile, on the Mona Lisa. Wait, that's Cole Porter.

Thing is, SWU is successful and draws in new members because it's big and established. We have trouble retaining those members for several reasons, and I'm going to list them.

1. Wait times. Even if we ignore the fact that mods are busy and yadda yadda yadda, there's still the fact that people sometimes wind up going multiple months without a review on SWU, and no prompt action is taken to rectify that error. Your typical new member isn't going to make a character and that sit around not RPing for two months because someone six hundred miles away is having a rough spot in their life. They're going to find another site.

2. Catatonic Plot. Major events on SWU have a tendency of being about as lively as a morgue. This is because the people who run them or play key roles in them are the same people who have perennial problems finding time for SWU, and the result is that everyone else winds up waiting on them and they get bogged down. To a lesser extent, it's also an issue that time on SWU moves slower than molasses in January, in Siberia. People feel like it's static.

3. Missions not Accomplished. When a prospective member sees the missions area, they might get excited. Except they get a little closer and find out that no, it's dead. It's the morgue, and they're surrounded by dead people.

4. Stagnant Leadership. It's hard for people to get too excited about the factions and major plot events when the leadership of all factions is just about as active as that morgue. Ghostie's Padawan was getting Knighted in-character, and he managed to find one High Councilor to RP with, and that was it. No one else was active. The leadership both IC and OOC moves far too slowly to be truly welcoming to new members.

So there's your four reasons. if you skipped to this point, they were bla, blerg, blargh, and blech respectively.

Now make absolutely no mistake here. lmr does not have some Palpatine-esque plan to seize control of SWU. He literally just resigned today because of the bloody annoyances of such responsibilities, and does not want any more. Nor does he have any specific plan to rectify all these crises.

All he is doing (besides referring to himself in the third person) is pointing out flaws he has noticed over his time in SWU, in the hopes that they will get dealt with.

And that's that. The end.

[Raytheon]

I don't think I can say what hasn't been already said, But those who are the position of a Mod are obligated to be active. While real life comes first then let it come first, and step down so that someone active can assume the role while not intending to attack anyone here one of my apps haven't been reviewed for going on.. 2 months now.

And while life indeed gets busy and I can somewhat empathize, role players who come here to role play honestly "don't care" they was to roleplay and when they apply, taking the time to read the app notes, and get to know the community to have to wait for weeks on end "just to have the opportunity to roleplay". They lose interest we are basically an organization and the best form of advertisement for any organization is word of mouth and what hurts a forum the worst is the rumor of it being dead. I want to share a quote with you here.

Since nobody cares to review or even comment. This application will be abandoned.

This player left and hasn't logged on since, that's one member lost and possibly several others who are given his advice when they ask him.

As a former Admin a forum is like a restaurant, each employee has a purpose you have the busboys to clean and prep tables, waiters and waitresses to lead guests to their tables and take orders, cooks to take the orders and cook, dishwashers to was and the cashier to take and process all transactions. Now since each faction has a part in keeping the story line moving, when a single mod goes inactive we ALL suffer. Allow me to demonstrate using a line of causality with a dirty table.

Busboy-->Waitress-->Cook--> Waitress-->Cashier.

When one decides not to come to work others have to pick up the slack, each role is crucial to the functionality of the others. If the Busboy doesn't come the waitresses have to clean their own tables which in return clogs up waiting periods, cook orders, and cash flow. If the Waitress is gone the busboy may have to fill in causing the same problem, the cook is gone there's no food. Cashier is gone the money making process is delayed.

---

Now on to a different problem, Who are the Admins?

I've met one admin and they were slightly inebriated at the time. When a employee messes up at a store or business you don't ask for another employee you ask for a manager. We haven't seen management, When Mods are inactive, management should be expected to step in to fill the slack or replace them yet there been no replacements and No filling in and until now no explanation as to why. If this were a business and I were the owner I would have found new managers, when I worked in wally world *shudders* and I had to take time off this was what they'd say "Find someone to cover your shift" That way there's not a lack of staff. Obviously this hasn't occurred and we are now in the perdictament we are in now while I understand some of you are friends and don't want to hurt each other's feeling it isn't personal it's "business" it's for the good of the forum

When dealing with other players you can't be emotional or put personal feelings above efficiency especially when quite literally other people have to rely on you. I have to rely on you, Fromikeable has to rely on you and Observer has to rely on you and so far we've been stood up.

Now I understand this may sound like a personal attack but it isn't, it's a statement from a Former Admin's point of view without the burden of emotion or hurting feelings, it's business.

And while Mods can be blamed it's Admins who appoint them. so what needs to happen is activity from the top down Admins need to be able to be talked to, reachable and players should be comfortable to approach them but if they loom over like a silent batman people are going to feel iffy about it.

With that said moving on,

---

Activity, now I work a lot, I mean a lot I've worked 70 hours weeks on a salary so no OT.

Now lets run some calculations here, because my job involves frequent calculations.

There are 24 hours in a day

Lets say we put a 60 hour work week in that equation and break it down into 6 (days in a week not including the Sabbath) we get 10 hours by simple division you work 10 hours a day. This leaves 14 hours left over, now lets consider to value proper sleep the optimal sleep levels of an average human is 8-9 hours. so we go with a median 8.5. So 14-8.5=5.5 hours.

Based on a study of Mcdonalds eaters the average human being can finish a meal in approx 14-18 minutes considering you eat three times a day (Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner) we find the median multiply it by three. Median is 16 minutes multiplied by three equals 48 minutes, now when we consider the average time of human urination and bowel movements that's an additional 35 minutes (3 restroom breaks) 35 minutes plus 48 minutes = 1.3 hours. We subtract that from our time left from work and sleep of about 5.5 hours. So now we're at 4.2 hours of free time.

Showers and hygiene surprising only take up a 30 minute gap daily.

With all human "needs" taken care of this is time for recreation leaving 3.7 hours

Now remember that number 3.7 hours

The average reading speed of a human being with a High School education's equivalency is 200-250 words per minute now I took a survey of the top approved apps in the Fringe section top 5 apps to average together word count. It comes out to..
1734
3668
6222
3062
3636
Averages to... 3664.4 words per post on average based on the limited survey. Now we divide that by average words read per minute to 16 minutes. It takes 16 minutes for a person of average reading skill to read a post now I don't have a system to determine how long it takes make a response but I'm sure it's actually quicker in a majority of cases. Now for argument sake lets say 16 minutes to read and 16 minutes to respond that's 32 minutes. by doing just one app a day you fulfill your role as mod and keep characters rolling through and RP happening.

And you still have over three hours of free time left after everything

SO! after all that, logically I can't see how someone can be occupied all day everyday for a month or longer. Unless you are in a coma, have terminal cancer or no internet.

Not a personal attack but a emotionless and unbiased observation from an administrators point of view.

EDIT: Thought to add this, based on my equation it takes 2.5% of your day to review a single app on average.

[Silas]

SO! after all that, logically I can't see how someone can be occupied all day everyday for a month or longer. Unless you are in a coma, have terminal cancer or no internet.

I haven't commented on anything thus far, because I've been wanting to learn what everyone thinks just as much as everyone else. I don't want to make this into a discussion about specifics, I want to see a general opinions.

And I don't want to scare people off from sharing their opinions, either.

However, this comment rubs me the wrong way. Its the kind of thing that is so incredibly narrow minded that I have no choice but to step in and question your logic.

So, lets go from where you left off on the logic debate and fill in the gaps. You're missing pieces to this puzzle that are very important. For one, not everyone works exactly the same, so most of these claims are based on statistical references, as opposed to the test sample which we are using, so they can almost immediately be thrown out for this situation. However, lets consider the fact that everything you said is true. Then, you left times to eat, but no time to get the food, nor really much time for preparing. This is like an example of rushing through life without taking any stops or pauses. You also have to consider that they do have to clean at some point or another. How long is their commute each day? Is it an hour, three, or five?

Also, it appears that you've never really been a mod, either. In my experience as a mod, reviewing wasn't really something that I necessarily looked forward too, it was more like a job. So, if someone's already super busy, I'm pretty sure they don't want to go back to work once they get home for the short amount of time that they have to relax. Not to mention in the kind of situation where they are, there's probably not really any time for that.

Basically, all that to say; please don't make baseless assumptions. This thread is for criticisms on things you have observed, not things you assumed. In the future a simple 'the staff isn't active enough' should suffice.

[Raytheon]

It's not baseless.

In an entire week there are 25.7 hours of time unaccounted and not not counting being off on Sunday, based off the equation. In a month there are 111 hours of recreation still not counting sunday where work isn't counted for.

Now since there are 111 hours, where less than 1% of that is to review/approve just one, a single solitary app and it wasn't done.. isn't baseless it's obvious stagnation

You can argue morals, or the need to boost morale. and while they have a real life to handle my point is if you can't handle it, resign form the position of mod or have someone else have the authority to approve characters in your section.

Two sections right now are completely at a stand still regardless if we role player decide to make reviews which I have, we can't approve them. and that's where it all stops.

[Deleted]

Casual updates would be nice. When something is going on, or something is being worked on. Not nessicarily upcoming plots or such just simple things like the lack of activity that was witnessed. Updates that things are being worked on or trying to be worked on.

[Raytheon]

Nov 23, 2012 4:18:43 GMT -5 @koeing said:

Casual updates would be nice. When something is going on, or something is being worked on. Not nessicarily upcoming plots or such just simple things like the lack of activity that was witnessed. Updates that things are being worked on or trying to be worked on.

I agree even a single sentence telling us whats happening keeping us up to date feeding us a little hope so we know whats going on.

[Moonfire]

Okay, I'm going to now attempt to respond to each of your points the best I can, and I do appreciate everyone who has responded to this, because some of these issues, like the level of drama between staff and well... the admins being perceived as scary is something I didn't know about until last night, which is why I started this topic so you all can voice concerns in a friendly environment.

First up, Fro.

I'd like to start off by assuring you that about 97% of the time there is no drama between the staff, and if there is its generally one to two people in a stand off that we try to handle in private. Most of the staff are honestly friends, I can say with confidence that Meira, Kella and Squee are some of my closest friends ever, and before I was staff I got close with Rugs, Lemur and Jenno, and you already know my feelings towards the Sith Mod =P.

As well we honestly strive to give a good public impression, because since we are human and we do disagree from time to time it can happen. Most disagreements are handled in private over PM or IM, but like I pointed out, we're human. Things happen, mistakes are made. Evidentially somewhere along the line you witnessed some sort of altercation between staff members and it bothered you, and for that I'm sorry.

As of right now any 'drama' that can be associated with us is just trying to get the site back into order. We had a member who made his concerns heard quite loudly, albiet in my personal opinion an overly dramatic and ill-timed fashion. Which is why I decided to take a reasonable mature route by giving a public forum for this to be discussed.

As the staff we strive to work together as a unit, and in some places we are failing, which is why we're here. A problem has been acknowledged and we're working to fix it. I hope this brings you some comfort =3. As well I honestly invite you and any other member who'd like to, to strive to become NGT. The blue shirt fits nicely! As for the unapproachable admins, I can tell you Mama Meira and Sparrow are very friendly, they don't bite... hard. They've got short teeth!

Now its Ghostie's time! Wooo, I'm gonna be here for a while, eh?

Concerning your roving mod idea, Ghostie, that's actually an excellent idea that was brought up to us by Dutch a few weeks back. Those pestering real lives have slowed down the process of getting it approved by all the staff and the admins, but the situation has currently called for Dutch to fully replace a mod right now, leaving us in a bit of a pickle over that. In the works is a system to allow mods to review and accept outside of their sections, which will hopefully afford the more active mods to help cover those of us who are already stretched pretty thin. We'll keep you guys updated on the status of these changes.

As for your concern about infighting/bickering, it is honestly a very rare occurence for the staff to get into such a confrontation in public or in a way that negatively effects the site, at least in my tenure here as both a member and staff. Most of us are friends or at least friendly, so the idea that we're being seen as both a clique and an infighting rabble is fairly amusing to me, especially when I consider us neither XD.

But perhaps thats another failing on our part, its something I will personally be looking into over the next few weeks to try and maintain a better group image.

Observer,

Thank you for your input, the staff inactivity is a problem yes. As I stated before we are currently trying to work out a system to address these problems, if you have any suggestions please state them! =3

Lamington and I have already discussed things at length, and as for plot stuff I think someone else should jump in. I understand the grievances, but I need solutions/ideas as well for this to be in anyway productive XD.

Tal,

Hi! Its nice to speak to you outside of review/stoic PMs! I'm sorry for not being able to do it sooner, I usually pride myself on my friendliness in the cbox, anyways moving on...

For your benefit and others, perhaps I can shed some light on my average day and what its like and why I haven't been reviewing as often as I should and will probably continue to be unable to until my internship ends on December 21st.

Also, for a little background information in case you haven't read my hiatus thread (which I'm sure most have missed XD) I as of October 1st have moved from my childhood home of Miami, FL to Philadelphia, PA to move in with my long time long distance boyfriend, Cain. I am currently working 30 hours a week at a bakery as an unpaid intern. I'm not sure if you've ever worked a high production center city bakery, but as someone not in the best of shape I can say it fairly exhausting but incredibly rewarding. In the afternoons I work as a personal cook and home care companion for an elderly woman, which is somewhat more relaxed, but still somewhat demanding and requiring my full attention. This takes another 25-30 hours out of my week. I'm also a 20 year old whose finally away from my her parents, in a new place trying to put down roots and make friends and enjoy being a responsible adult. Its an interesting time I don't think I was nearly prepared for XD.

5:45am: Wake up, get dressed, complain about having to be awake.
6:14am: Prod at Cain and drive to the train station
6:21am: Ride the train into center city
7am: Reports in for unpaid internship, works nonstop with no break.
1pm: Gets off her internship, sit for about 20 minutes and drinks some juice/tea at a cafe and wait for the train to come in.
1:42pm: Get on train home.
2:10pm: Gets home, eats lunch, takes a shower, change, look at SWU and attempt to do a review if I have the mental energy to do so, if not try and take the time to call my mom/old friends and complain about how I miss them.
3:04pm: Leave for personal cook/home care companion job, usually I can hitch a ride or I take the trolley.
3:30pm: Reports in at work, which also has no breaks and requires constant standing and supervision.
8:30pm Gets off work and Cain picks her up, we scrape together some dinner and try and spend some time together, since hes the reason she moved there in the first place XD.
9:30pm: Sam is passed out.

This is not including the times where I come into the bakery when its my day off, or my days off which I usually spent well... trying to live outside of the work cycle. Grocery shopping, running errands, making arrangements for the apartment we're moving into next Saturday, spending time by myself to do things important to me. When I say I'm busy, I'm not saying I'm just coming home from the office to crack open and beer and watch TV. I come home and go right to sleep because I'm exhausted to my core. I tried to watch Skyfall after work last week and felt like crying because the movie was too long and all I wanted to do was sleep XD.

Now, this is no excuse for the section being stagnant, but I want to give full disclosure that this is what my life is like right now. I'm an unpaid volunteer here on SWU, like the rest. I'm a mod because I like helping people and I want to help the site, which I'm not doing the best right now. But I am human, I am emotional and this isn't a business, its a collection of likeminded people working together for the fun of it. We're more like a club than a restaurant, in my opinion and this is coming from someone who went to culinary school and perfectly understands the way a kitchen and front of house are run. Certain officers are appointed to try and keep the group moving cohesively forward, there are some failings in that, and so here we are, attempting to restructure while also telling people that their real lives still come first and being understanding to the sort of pressures certain staff are taking on.

Hopefully with the employment with either a roving mod or allowing mods to start reviewing in certain sections to help those of us who are stretched a little thin will be able to fix this.

Now for a much more general statement not pointed at anyone in particular.

I would love to help appoint more staff, but we need to see reviews, good reviews. If you've reviewed a character, PM the mod for that section and let them know, perhaps establish a sort of relationship with the mod of that section, if you review in mine I will let you know via PM what I appreciated about your review and what I thought was wrong or could have worded better.

And as a plus, any reviews in my section that I deem perfect will only require me to stamp approved at the bottom and will move things along more.

I'm not asking you to do my job XD, don't get me wrong. But in order to employ more staff we have to see more people taking an interest in reviewing and doing good reviews.

For now we are still discussing the roving mod/allowing mods to cross sections and hopefully that will help things along.

As my closing statement for this monstrosity, I hope I've shed some light on some things here, if there is anything you feel I've miss represented please let me know, or if you have more concerns or just want to share something in private don't hesitate to PM me or catch me on skype.

I'm moonfiresfury on there. =3

[Ghostie]

While you answered most of our concerns excellent Mooney, you did forget something. Lmr's own concerns. Whether you ignored it or missed it (something that seems impossible to do with a post that size), he does bring up good points.

I realise that you may not be in a position to answer questions like he has, but that doesn't mean you can't ignore them. Saying "I don't have an answer for you" is better than no answer at all. These are the kinds of things that people can pick up and drama/infighting, if taken the wrong way.

Plot, Missions, and Time on SWU is slower than, as he put it, "Molasses in Siberia in the middle of January". The people running these things are always the ones who are inactive/can't find time for SWU. The characters who have leadership roles are always the most inactive.

In the whole year and a half I've been here, The Battle of Ordo and The Battle of Thila are first major events to come around (Which seems extremely weird for a Galactic-Scale War). And now they're stuck in the mud. And beyond that, time hasn't moved at all. The amount of threads I have with some characters makes managing IC time weird, as if I've gone over the year we're in.

Rather than rehash what Lmr has already said, I shall just copy/paste/quote.

1. Wait times. Even if we ignore the fact that mods are busy and yadda yadda yadda, there's still the fact that people sometimes wind up going multiple months without a review on SWU, and no prompt action is taken to rectify that error. Your typical new member isn't going to make a character and that sit around not RPing for two months because someone six hundred miles away is having a rough spot in their life. They're going to find another site.

2. Catatonic Plot. Major events on SWU have a tendency of being about as lively as a morgue. This is because the people who run them or play key roles in them are the same people who have perennial problems finding time for SWU, and the result is that everyone else winds up waiting on them and they get bogged down. To a lesser extent, it's also an issue that time on SWU moves slower than molasses in January, in Siberia. People feel like it's static.

3. Missions not Accomplished. When a prospective member sees the missions area, they might get excited. Except they get a little closer and find out that no, it's dead. It's the morgue, and they're surrounded by dead people.

4. Stagnant Leadership. It's hard for people to get too excited about the factions and major plot events when the leadership of all factions is just about as active as that morgue. Ghostie's Padawan was getting Knighted in-character, and he managed to find one High Councilor to RP with, and that was it. No one else was active. The leadership both IC and OOC moves far too slowly to be truly welcoming to new members.

[Moonfire]

Lamington and I have already discussed things at length, and as for plot stuff I think someone else should jump in. I understand the grievances, but I need solutions/ideas as well for this to be in anyway productive XD.

I did answer, Lamington is merely my nickname for him, sorry if that caused any confusion. I'm afraid plot wise, since I have no control over the plot I can't answer things like this, this is something I'd like some of the other staff members input on as well as you the members. What are your proposed solutions?

But as you can see here, I didn't ignore him, sorry if it seemed that way at all XD.

[Juzt]

Um, I dunno if it is a helpful suggestion at all. But if a mod is going to be gone for a while, perhaps a Next Gen member could be selected, by the other Mods or the one who is going of for a bit, to take over till they get back. Just maybe instead of having a roving mod. I dunno if that helps at all, *goes back to hiding shyly under the bed*

[0bserver]

I have a suggestion that might work, but also might call a lot of fire on itself. There are mods for each section, one for Military, one for Fringe etcetera. On many other sites I was on, including SW-related ones, there's no such differentiation. They're just 'Mods', and each is able to approve whatever apps are there, no matter if they're Jedi, Sith, or regular folks with blasters. I don't see why we can't do that here. It's not like a mod who is in charge of approving Jedi has absolutely no knowledge about the Sith, and a Fringe mod is an absolute dunce when it comes to Military.

And speaking of application approvals, I believe folks should be more lenient on that. I remember I had my Fringe reviewed a while ago. And the mod doing it, in addition to being slow as a slug, seemed to be paying more attention to grammar rather than actual flaws in a character. I mean it, 2/3 of the review was focused on misspelled words, commas, or dubiously -worded phrases. I just don't think these mistakes, if they're not riddling half of a text, are useless. Lowering the bar a tad bit won't hurt.

[Rugs]

Going to add my own thoughts to some of these

While you answered most of our concerns excellent Mooney, you did forget something. Lmr's own concerns. Whether you ignored it or missed it (something that seems impossible to do with a post that size), he does bring up good points.

I realise that you may not be in a position to answer questions like he has, but that doesn't mean you can't ignore them. Saying "I don't have an answer for you" is better than no answer at all. These are the kinds of things that people can pick up and drama/infighting, if taken the wrong way.

Plot, Missions, and Time on SWU is slower than, as he put it, "Molasses in Siberia in the middle of January". The people running these things are always the ones who are inactive/can't find time for SWU. The characters who have leadership roles are always the most inactive.

In the whole year and a half I've been here, The Battle of Ordo and The Battle of Thila are first major events to come around (Which seems extremely weird for a Galactic-Scale War). And now they're stuck in the mud. And beyond that, time hasn't moved at all. The amount of threads I have with some characters makes managing IC time weird, as if I've gone over the year we're in.

Plots and Missions are only partially in our hands. Sometimes, yes, the people that play the key roles do get bogged down and that can slow the plot down. It's unfortunate, but it does happen. However, that goes both ways. I've been a member here longer than anyone that's posted in this thread so far. I've been through multiple major events, plot points, and orchestrated missions. Sometimes it's that regular members that also play some kind of role vanish, even from threads that were chugging along nicely.

I can promise you, this is probably more frustrating for the staff than it is for most of you. We've tried multiple things, like reminding people they don't have to necessarily go in a post order in a major event. We've tried to limit people we know to be flaky from posting in major events. We've done several things, but sometimes, for some people, life just gets in the way. Sometimes people we don't think will flake have something come up, or, for whatever reason, vanish. And sometimes these are people that have been on the site for a while, so it's not like this problem is limited to new members.

So we've done what we can. It's not like we can force people to continue posting on SWU, because obviously this place is just a hobby. If you have any suggestions on how to rectify this, then please offer it--since that's part of what this thread is for--but we understand that concern very well, and have tried to do something for it. It's not as simple as snapping our fingers and it being fixed, though.

If only life were so simple =P

~~~~~~

Time- this is my personal opinion, but I'm okay with how time is. It could move a bit faster, sure, but I like that we keep a slower pace. A lot can happen in a year.

But again, that's more just Rug's thoughts than an official staff position. Time is out of my hands anyway.

~~~~~~~

More NGT/Mods- So, I think we might need to make a thread for this to just get the info out there (or bump/modify the one that already exists) because I know that I've personally explained this multiple times, but the same concern keeps being brought up.

There's a reason we encourage normal members to review. That helps them learn the system and learn how we judge characters and what best to look for. Over time, these people can become candidates for the NGT position, and in turn become candidate to become a Mod. Even RPMs can do so, since my own roots run through Roleplay Mentoring, rather than being an NGT.

Now, we do this for a few reasons. One, it helps the site flow more smoothly in normal times. Two, when abnormalities arrive, like two of our mods move in to live with each other, one from halfway across the country, it gives us options to have more people to go to.

I see people often ask why more mods aren't made when we don't have some keeping up as they should. The simple answer to that question is because there are no prospects that we can raise to moderator. The staff just can't wave and pick some person at random and make them moderator (again, as nice as that would be...) so when we don't have people that have risen to NGT in the good times, we don't have potential people we can call upon in the bad.

Again, we'll do what we can to pick up the pace some. We understand that's a concern. But sometimes our hands get tied by what reserves we have to call on. In the past, when we've had issues like this, we've been able to get through with the work of a health NGT corps and someone we could raise to mod. However, we don't have that now, and our options are limited.

Now something else I'll point is that, though life has kept me more away than I usually am, I have told several people several times that we'd been in talks to get Dutch worked up to mod so he could help fill in with the vacancies. It was done in the cbox, so it's not like it was something private. Now, clearly some of you may not have been around, but I'd put the knowledge out there on more than one occasion, usually to a member asking about what was being done for the Sith section. Just for what that's worth, anyway.

~~~~~~

Talrath- I get what you're trying to say, but you're wording it poorly. The point you're trying to make is that, over a period of time, people should be able to find a little bit of time to sneak a review in here and there. I get that, and generally would agree with it.

However, you can't really draw comparisons from SWU to real-world companies. SWU is not a company. SWU is a roleplay site on the internet, that is a place where people carry out a hobby. Not a job. SWU does not feed me. SWU does not clothe me. SWU does not pay my tuition. SWU is a hobby. This is the same reason I'm not always tripping over myself to post; because it's a hobby, and I generally expect people to understand that. Most of the people I post with do.

If it did, then I, and many other staff would be on it like white on rice, cause who wouldn't want to get paid for that.

However, realizing that it doesn't--and using your example of only having three hours of free time in a day, which I personally can very easily blow through on homework alone, not to mention potential social interaction (since I'm not a robot)---I'll just say that on days when I've been very busy, and there have been a few of those lately, the last thing I want to do is get on SWU and do more work. You'll notice, and I think this holds true for most mods, that I do reviews when I have a lot of time. No one wants to come home from doing work and being stressed all day to come home and do more work.

Now do those days come when I have free time? Yeah, absolutely. But am I going to do work on days where work is all I've done? No. There have been spans of time recently where I don't even log in on SWU, because I have other stuff to do that's higher up on the totem pole of importance or responsibility. Of course, I do try to get to my section semi-regularly and clear things in chunks, but I think you catch my drift.

So, I said all that to say this: I generally agree with the gist of what you're saying, so don't let that get lost in what I'm trying to convey, but I think you chose a poor method to try to convey that. You take something that relies on human beings and try to reduce them to robots, and workers in a company. Do I love SWU? Absolutely. Do I treat SWU with the same kind of energy that I treat my actual job? No. My priorities would be askew if I did.

~~~~~

Observer- being that I'm the Fringe mod, could you tell me, here or in private, what character you're referring to. Nar was approved in one go, and I didn't really have many things to say for Nika before she was ready beyond some stat concerns typical of most reviews. So unless there's another character I've had with you, I'm not sure what you're referring to. And I might be missing a character; I have to run out so I'm in a bit of a hurry.

[0bserver]

I was speaking about Talau, Rugs.

[Moonfire]

Oh, well Talau isn't staff anymore, we don't have a lot of staff members that nit-pick over that sort of thing for that reason. Problem solved! Yay!

[Raytheon]

Thanks for the response Moonfire, but apart from my previous posts there's something that also came to my attention in terms of the main plots.

It needs to progress no matter what.

Now by this it would require more work on part of the staff something that they may not really jump behind. When a plot is actually being RP'ed you have the players then there should be a Mod/Game Master/Dungeon Master. Who will post everyday/set period of time to keep it going so if a player doesn't post they get left behind and need to catch up.

For example I'll post some BS quotes to represent players interaction and then mod interaction and how crucial it is for Mods to post a (Mod/Game Master/Dungeon Master) post to make the entire plot progress and work.

Example one.. why we are stuck now.
Involved with be:
Game Master/Admin/Mod: he may or may not have his/her own character involved as well and should post completely separate for them.
Player 1: Regular player who fights "for" never-land
Player 2: another Regular player "for" never-land

---

Battle of Neverland

Gamemaster

The sounds of artillery fire in the distance cause a rumble in never-land quickly followed by the whistling of falling mortars and screams. In the distance several ships can be visibly seen landing near marshmallow grove. The Armies of Neverland have been deployed and all bases are on full alert.

The banner of the invaders looks to be the tin men who've landed outside the great wall separating them from never-land capital.

(alright lets get started I'll be posting a mod everyday after 10pm EST, Lets do this!!)

Player 1

Player 1 awakens from the jolt of artillery explosions noticing the commotion outside his barracks after finding out the army is put on full alert quickly grabs his clothes and weapon to find his commanding officer for orders. Rushing out in the hall way finding a nearby Captain he offers a salute and requesting to know whats going on.

Player 2

Player 2 having been in the cafeteria at the time, felt the alarm go off being lazy and sighing he doesn't move as chaos erupt around him instead opting to finish his oatmeal after all officers don't have to run.

(Mod has posted along with player, now the mod has to keep it going in the mission, players are now aware of their time limit if they don't post they are left behind and the mission goes forward if they are unable to post consistently they shouldn't have signed up there are tons of smaller RP's they can play at a slower pace or more "casual" pace. The mod will now respond.

Gamemaster

Several civilian buildings are hit causing them to collapse and erupt on fire as gas lines are severed and ignited. First responds immediately head to rescue trapped civilians while the 5th and 12th infantry platoons are assembling to march a defensive position against the tin men. Reports and sightings of small tin men units have been seen entering the city along the southern wall and are beginning to clear out small buildings killing neverland civilians and military personnel on sight.

As Player 1 approaches the Captain he seems to be rushed turns to him quickly. "What!? We are under attack soldier! Get your arse to the 5th platoon staging area over there we need to get moving immediately!" He yells in a sense of urgency yet also to be heard over the sounds of rushing and panicked soldiers as a nearby artillery hit punches through the nearby wall causing a spray of stone dust and pebbles to spray over you and the soldier around you harmlessly "Sh*t!! Hurry we are getting pounded!!" He yells after the explosion hits.

A Lt. rushes up to Player 2 tackling him to the ground as the durateel ceiling above the table he was eating his oatmeal at apathetically collapses and crushed the table and the chair he was sitting at. On the ground safely from the debris underneath the Lt. and stands up looking into your eyes. "Get up soldier and move to the fronts lines , I'm Lt. Duke Nukem and I don't have time to bleed" Before running over to the nearby water fountain to get a drink.

Now see the players posted with a mod response now in the next scene lets demonstrates the same post but player 2 not responding because he/she is busy irl all of a sudden.

---

Battle of Neverland

Gamemaster

The sounds of artillery fire in the distance cause a rumble in never-land quickly followed by the whistling of falling mortars and screams. In the distance several ships can be visibly seen landing near marshmallow grove. The Armies of Neverland have been deployed and all bases are on full alert.

The banner of the invaders looks to be the tin men who've landed outside the great wall separating them from never-land capital.

(alright lets get started I'll be posting a mod everyday after 10pm EST, Lets do this!!)

Player 1

Player 1 awakens from the jolt of artillery explosions noticing the commotion outside his barracks after finding out the army is put on full alert quickly grabs his clothes and weapon to find his commanding officer for orders. Rushing out in the hall way finding a nearby Captain he offers a salute and requesting to know whats going on.

(Mod has posted along with player, now the mod has to keep it going in the mission, players are now aware of their time limit if they don't post they are left behind and the mission goes forward if they are unable to post consistently they shouldn't have signed up there are tons of smaller RP's they can play at a slower pace or more "casual" pace. The mod will now respond.

Gamemaster
(Sorry Player 2, times up gotta move up simply re-post if you want to get back in after 5 more mod posts im removing you from the mission.)

Several civilian buildings are hit causing them to collapse and erupt on fire as gas lines are severed and ignited. First responds immediately head to rescue trapped civilians while the 5th and 12th infantry platoons are assembling to march a defensive position against the tin men. Reports and sightings of small tin men units have been seen entering the city along the southern wall and are beginning to clear out small buildings killing neverland civilians and military personnel on sight.

As Player 1 approaches the Captain he seems to be rushed turns to him quickly. "What!? We are under attack soldier! Get your arse to the 5th platoon staging area over there we need to get moving immediately!" He yells in a sense of urgency yet also to be heard over the sounds of rushing and panicked soldiers as a nearby artillery hit punches through the nearby wall causing a spray of stone dust and pebbles to spray over you and the soldier around you harmlessly "Sh*t!! Hurry we are getting pounded!!" He yells after the explosion hits.

But the story moves on, no delay no stagnation
However this also calls for a degree of spontaneous action meaning plots may or may not be pre-planned,

Lets look at an example here,

Battle of Ice Cream path.

5 Jedi
3 Republic Officers

vs.

5 Sith Order
3 Sith Officers


3 days into the post the 2 of the 3 Sith officers don't seem the post, the Mod/Game master will RP it as them freezing in command their platoons and brigades dissolving into chaos. The single sith officer will rally them and and take command of the entire ground forces personally showing initiative OR he can ignore them and leave them to their fates focusing on his own platoon.

Because of the inability for two players to post... the odds going into the RP are now.

5 Jedi
3 Republic Officers

vs.
5 Sith Order
1 Sith Officer

A sith Apprentice attempts to face one of the Republic Officers and his entire say.. Regiment he's a Colonel the mod will look at the skill set of them both to account for personal prowess of the Sith apprentice and then the skills of the Colonel namely leadership to see if he can coordinate his men right now. The mod posts that a 3rd of the Regiment is cut down by the skill of the Sith apprentice however in the fray he takes a blaster shot to the chest and falls unconscious unto the ground Mods makes him aware he's injured and will be disabled for 2 turns at which point he will be introduced into the mission OR he's out for the remainder of the mission.

The Sith player can OOC complain be he's the dumba** that attempted to take on a Colonel and his 2,500-4,000 soldiers on an open battle field with no real use of tactics.

The Gamemaster is essential to the plot and it is his/her duty to keep it going, they can determine if a player is too obligated to other posts to join in as well. And ensure no one is playing starkiller For Exmaple..

Player 1

Steve jumps off the 20th story building to avoid the explosion as he falls using his lightsaber to bat away many of the bolts being shot at him as he falls before eventually landing causing a large explosion of duracrete and force matter to spread. Assessing his situation knowing he is currently surround and quickly using force repel and push away everyone before quickly attacking each one systematically killing them off.

Then using the force push fueled by Force Rage to turn a nearby soldier into dust.

Gamemaster

A sniper posted never 500 meters away witnesses this act of impossibility and fire a single slug and hits Steve directly in the back of the shoulder forcing him to collapse unconscious while he is carried and thrown into pile of dead bodies assumed to be dead. (you are disabled for 5 turns buddy, don't be suicidal.)

Main arguments for this is it requires the game master to have time but it's just roleplaying for the group to assume and play out the usually unplayable aspects. And in reality Military Officers are hardest to RP they have to account for their armies a Colonel will have a Brigade (2,500-4,000 men to RP under his command) not to mention if there is an actual player under him he commands them as well and they RP out that command.

So while a Jedi will post what he does, a Colonel will post what he does, his army does, how they positioned, the tactics they employed, rp description of armor, weapons, and tasks.

What does everyone think.

[Jace]

Nov 23, 2012 0:19:38 GMT -5 Lemur, The Kool-Aid Guy said:

2. Catatonic Plot. Major events on SWU have a tendency of being about as lively as a morgue. This is because the people who run them or play key roles in them are the same people who have perennial problems finding time for SWU, and the result is that everyone else winds up waiting on them and they get bogged down. To a lesser extent, it's also an issue that time on SWU moves slower than molasses in January, in Siberia. People feel like it's static.

4. Stagnant Leadership. It's hard for people to get too excited about the factions and major plot events when the leadership of all factions is just about as active as that morgue. Ghostie's Padawan was getting Knighted in-character, and he managed to find one High Councilor to RP with, and that was it. No one else was active. The leadership both IC and OOC moves far too slowly to be truly welcoming to new members.

I think I'll take a stab at explaining things here and hopefully through clarification we can find an appropriate solution. Points 2 and 4 are more or less the result of the same thing or at the very least, closely related. For a long period of time, my characters were in charge of both the Jedi and Mandalorians. Every so often, someone would note(and reasonably so) that I essentially had control over two factions. My response was always the same two-pronged answer. One was that I had worked from day one to get the plots for the faction moving, even before I was a mod. The other was that there were no feasible potential replacements.

My point mentioning all this is that the people who are in charge of factions and major plots got there because they worked hard. They become moderators and admins for the same reason. Therefore it is only natural for their accomplishments to transfer into IC and OOC responsibilities. Unfortunately the more OOC responsibilities they have, the less they have to dedicate to their characters. Now I'm not saying things don't move a bit too slowly, cause they do. I merely wished to point out that the leaders of plots and the like are not in such positions due to some RP version of cronyism.

I do believe Rugs brought up a good point in that plot stalling is far from just a result of staff inactivity. Often it is exactly the opposite. The leaders of plots remain but all what you might consider 'normal' members just drop like flies. In my opinion its just the nature of RP forums. Though as Rugs already mentioned, we -have- completed multiple major plots.

Now I like the example you brought up about Ghostie's padawan because I think it highlights an important 'phenomena' that needs to be addressed. It is true that things may move a bit slow yet members often seem content to simply just complain about it and move on. When we ask people to step up to the plate and review apps or prove themselves, it is met with little enthusiasm. I noticed that people will also simply make Jedi Knights yet no one seems to want to make a Council member. When I first joined, the Council was pretty static but I made Jace and developed plots etc. I did the same with the Mandalorians. If you work hard and make an effort, things will change. The staff can't do things alone.

3. Missions not Accomplished. When a prospective member sees the missions area, they might get excited. Except they get a little closer and find out that no, it's dead. It's the morgue, and they're surrounded by dead people.

I actually have an idea for missions that I'm going to try and run by the staff first. It will hopefully streamline the process and make it so it requires very little staff oversight and will be more or less autonomous.

Well that explanation turned out longer than I expected but it's k. I mainly wanted to say that I agree that SWU can become quite stagnant at times and often the attitude seems to be "Well that's alright". This is a condition that I perpetuated as well but I do think it is something that needs to be changed. I know that the staff wants to work on and implement contingencies for staff getting busy or plots stalling but like I've been saying this entire post, it is a two-way street. Everyone is responsible for the direction SWU takes and blame is far too easily being shifted to one side or the other.